Get ready to embark on an audio journey that promises to leave you informed and inspired about one of the names that has been around digital workflow since nearly the beginning. We're joined by Chris Handford, Chief Product Officer at Vorum, who shares his fascinating transition from the telecommunications industry to the front lines of O&P innovation, giving us a personal glimpse into the power of technology to revolutionize patient care.
As temperatures drop and the holiday season approaches, we unwrap the narrative of Vorum's impressive 30-year history, detailing how they've navigated the fluid medical tech landscape. We'll tackle the tangible benefits of dedicated CAD/CAM solutions, the reasons carving still dominates in our field, and the must-know factors for clinics considering in-house manufacturing versus collaboration with central fabricators. This episode isn't just about the cold hard facts—it's a testament to the warmth and dedication found within the O&P community.
Finally, we take you through the ins and outs of the Luma 3D scanner, which is a tool that is redefining how we capture the human form for custom devices. We'll explore the cost-effective strategies for integrating digital tools into your practice, even for the smallest clinics aiming to punch above their weight. And for those new to the digital dance, we stress the importance of education in making the transition as smooth as the glide of a well-fitted prosthesis or orthosis. So, whether you're prepping for a feast of knowledge or just curious about the future of O&P, this episode serves up a hearty helping of insight.
Check Vorum out on the web!
Get ready to embark on an audio journey that promises to leave you informed and inspired about one of the names that has been around digital workflow since nearly the beginning. We're joined by Chris Handford, Chief Product Officer at Vorum, who shares his fascinating transition from the telecommunications industry to the front lines of O&P innovation, giving us a personal glimpse into the power of technology to revolutionize patient care.
As temperatures drop and the holiday season approaches, we unwrap the narrative of Vorum's impressive 30-year history, detailing how they've navigated the fluid medical tech landscape. We'll tackle the tangible benefits of dedicated CAD/CAM solutions, the reasons carving still dominates in our field, and the must-know factors for clinics considering in-house manufacturing versus collaboration with central fabricators. This episode isn't just about the cold hard facts—it's a testament to the warmth and dedication found within the O&P community.
Finally, we take you through the ins and outs of the Luma 3D scanner, which is a tool that is redefining how we capture the human form for custom devices. We'll explore the cost-effective strategies for integrating digital tools into your practice, even for the smallest clinics aiming to punch above their weight. And for those new to the digital dance, we stress the importance of education in making the transition as smooth as the glide of a well-fitted prosthesis or orthosis. So, whether you're prepping for a feast of knowledge or just curious about the future of O&P, this episode serves up a hearty helping of insight.
Check Vorum out on the web!
Hi everyone, my name is Joris Peels and this is another episode of the prosthetics and orthotics podcast with Brent Wright. How you doing, brent?
Speaker 2:Man, I'm doing well. Man, how is the weather where you're at in Spain? Does it ever get bad, or is it always nice? It's horrible, it's terrible.
Speaker 1:We have to wear sweaters outside. It's really bad. I've been wearing pants for weeks now like three, four weeks I've been wearing pants and now I have to wear sweaters, and it may even get as bad as we need a jacket. So it's terrible. How about you?
Speaker 2:So is that during the day too? Does it warm enough to where you can get a short sleeve shirt in, or anything?
Speaker 1:No, no, I don't have to wear a sweater all day now. I don't know how I'm coping, yeah.
Speaker 2:Well for us man, our weather doesn't know what to do. It's hot and cold. I know this is a crazy question, baby, but are you going to partake in any American festivities like Thanksgiving or anything?
Speaker 4:No.
Speaker 2:I mean some sweet potato stuff and some turkey and all that.
Speaker 1:No, we don't do Thanksgiving. But, although you would maybe find this really strange, although Halloween is huge here, now right, and this is only a few years ago, and all of a sudden, like Halloween came out of nowhere and now everybody, especially like teenagers, I guess, and like a little bit older kids, they do know Halloween. It's always Halloween parties, so that's the one holiday that's really getting a foothold here, but Thanksgiving not so much. Okay, next year.
Speaker 2:We're going to fly you to the US you and your girlfriend and you're going to come enjoy the right style Thanksgiving.
Speaker 1:What is that? I'm not coming if you fire the turkey, because I've seen that go wrong on the Internet so often that.
Speaker 2:I'm not doing that. So our family, we like well, we do ham, but we also smoke the turkey, which is quite delicious, but then one thing that you'll find as close to heaven as possible is my wife makes these things called sweet potato biscuits.
Speaker 1:I have no idea what that is.
Speaker 2:So a sweet potato is an orange potato.
Speaker 1:Oh, I know we have those, we have those. Oh, okay, okay, I'm like man, how much do I have to explain to you? Come on.
Speaker 2:But anyway. So it's a biscuit recipe. It's been in her family for probably 75 years plus and they are phenomenal. So it's like a biscuit, but it's got a little bit of sweetness in it. It's perfect. With a little bit of ham, you're good to go. So, just go ahead and put it on your calendar and we're going to make it happen. We're going to make this a. You know the prosthetics and orthotics podcast, but I don't know anything, Neither was not anything about American football, right?
Speaker 1:If you have this big American football kind of watching thing, it's going to be a bit awkward for us. We're going to be like sitting there going, uh, how does this work?
Speaker 2:You know, for us football isn't a big part of uh of the Thanksgiving day. I mean, we may have it on a little bit, but most of the time it's uh, you know, between eating and napping. That's about all we do Okay.
Speaker 1:All right, that's going to be interesting. That's going to be interesting, all right. Thank you for the invitation. Thank you so much. So who's on the?
Speaker 2:show today, mom. Well, uh, we put them through just all that. But we've got Chris Hanford on the show. He's the chief product officer at Vorm and I'm just really excited to have him on the show because he's really moved up the ladder in Vorm. So he started off as a customer, uh, a service success leader, and then now he's moved to the chief product officer and he's really seen the evolution of digitization in O and P, and so I think the insight that uh he may be able to give us on really that, that process and what resonates, what doesn't resonate, what you know, scanning, design, and then also going from the side of the carving, where a lot of people were carving their positive models, to now this idea of 3D printing and how their company has pivoted and navigated through some of these uh, will be very interesting. So I'm really excited to have him on the show.
Speaker 1:Okay, cool, me too. Me too. Welcome to Chris. Welcome to the show.
Speaker 4:Thanks very much, guys. Pleasure to be here.
Speaker 1:Uh, so first of all like so how'd you get started on O and P, chris?
Speaker 4:Um, yeah, um, so that's a. It's a story, um, I went to school for electrical engineering, um, and a lot of my coursework was around was around like telecommunications and um and cellular technology, um, and I graduated in 2001 for my, for my undergrad, and that was at Queen's University in Canada, and in 2001, I don't know if you remember uh, there was a bit of a correction in the market the dot com bubble burst, and uh, me and all of my uh colleagues that I was graduating with, we all had a tough time finding work. Uh, people were being let go from jobs even before they started Um, uh, and it was a tough time uh to to be looking for work. So, um, I guess, um, for better or worse, it made us look in in other areas and uh, I found, uh, you know, based in Vancouver, um and I found this local company, uh, vorum, that was doing some pretty cool technology. Uh, that was loosely related to what I'd studied Um and uh, it was all about CADCAM technology, which I had been exposed to in in my, in my studies, um, but it was from, you know, from coming from a more clinical uh perspective, and uh, that certainly attracted me, um and cause I hadn't even really thought of that before.
Speaker 4:I didn't really know anything about OMP uh, before joining with Vorum, and that's really kind of how it, you know, all started Um and uh from there. I started in the um, you know, in the, in the support team, you know we were, you know, supporting customers remotely, um and helping them with technical issues. But I would also be on the road um doing implementations, installations and training. You know we were quite a smaller team back then. So you know we had to wear many hats and that you know. So the nice thing there is I got to go out in the field actually working with customers in their space, um, um, helping them, you know, get using the technology but also learning what it is they're really trying to do with it, um, so that was uh yeah really, really great experience at that time in my in my career.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so one of the interesting things is, like you got to visit a lot of your customers so you know there must be a huge diversity in bigger, smaller practices, regional practices, super specialized practices, people that do just about anything. Can you tell us a little bit about that, just that crazy variety of OMP shops, let's say they have out there?
Speaker 4:Yeah, no, it's true you get different organizations, have different focus and different countries. A lot of it can come down to what type of devices are reimbursed more than others. And even if there's, it's actually interesting where we found the biggest benefit for CAD is actually when those reimbursements are going lower. People are forced into a change. They have to find a way to be more efficient and effective. So that will change by country and by how people out there, how practitioners and how the clinics are getting paid really impacts where they find the biggest benefit for the technology.
Speaker 4:But at the end of the day, on the flip side, I would say that there is a lot of overlap between people making prosthetic devices in the United States or in Canada versus Europe and Asia. At the end of the day, they're dealing with humans, they're dealing with patients and they're trying to do the best they can to have a great clinic or result for their patient while at the same time make a living and have a successful business. So yeah, it's been interesting where you go to other countries and at the end of the day, they're all doing similar stuff. The focus might be on different devices, but they're still dealing with patients at the end of the day. So that's been, I think, a big learning for me over the years.
Speaker 1:Is it so? Because what always comes up is that basically this LMP profession is under pressure from all sides, like by the government on the one hand, maybe in some countries and other countries much more insurance companies and other countries, like there's a lot of pricing pressure on this market. Is that true in a lot of places or is that just our perception, because it keeps coming up?
Speaker 4:No, I think that's always going to be a thing, and even if reimbursement rates don't change, costs might change. So at the end of the day, you still got to find a way to pay for what you do and still provide the best service, best care you can for the patient.
Speaker 2:I think what's interesting and what you said is a lot of people are reaching out to you because of the cost difference and that sort of thing. But how would you say VORM has changed over the years. I mean 30 plus years, right, and so what were the core values back then and maybe what were the attraction of the ideal customer? Then to say how that has shifted over the last 30 years.
Speaker 4:Yeah, good question At the beginning. With bringing any new technology to the market, you're really looking for those early adopters, some people that have a long-term vision of how technology can be applied and even if it's not 100% ready, they're ready to get in with it and get an early and get a jump on the market. Maybe there are, of course, different reasons. People would do that as early adopters and people potentially with some vision, to be that local file leader, regional file leader, be one step ahead and also help in bringing technology to their region. In the past we would deal more directly with single clinics. We had some start in the US, but actually Europe is where we had our, I think, biggest growth in the 90s and from there things did evolve over time More recently.
Speaker 4:I would say our core customer is more the partner.
Speaker 4:It could be a distributor, could be a large hospital network. So we do find it is easier to get our technology more broadly into the market when we don't have to be the one to go and install and train on each scanner that goes out in the field. So how can we get the biggest number of, how can we get the biggest impact out in the market with our technology and we found that through regional partners Over time that's really become the way that we can stretch our wings a bit more more bang from our buck internally on the corporate side and then we're dealing with people out in the field that actually speak the local language, can do local support and understand the local issues and challenges of clinics in their region. So that has been an evolution over time and certainly we have many direct customers still and loyal customers that love dealing with us directly and are happy to. But we found over time that as we evolve and grow our partner and distributor network, that's been the overall benefit for Forum.
Speaker 1:So, a little bit, like you know, I have no idea, tell us a little bit. I have no idea, of course, about the Ingenonso Forum, where Brenda, of course, knows everything about them. So tell us a little bit about what Forum is and what do you guys do.
Speaker 4:Yeah, so I can speak a little bit where we started.
Speaker 4:So Carl Saunders is the founder. He started doing research for CADCAM technology back in the late 70s, if you can believe it, working out of UBC there was a medical engineering research sorry, medical engineering resource unit. He was working with Jim Fort and Jim Fort was a pioneer and from that Carl got into the technology and was the one that really decided okay, I'm going to bring this to the market. So he created Forum in 1989, is when Forum became a company and at the time was really just focused on making the CAD software, like how you take a scan or digitize the shape at the time and modify it so that it could be carved in a carver. And over the years, dealing with other issues having to integrate with different scanning technology and different carvers, we evolved the company to really be able to provide that sort of end-to-end solution scan design and carve and fast forward some 34, almost 35 years. And 3D printing is another thing that's come in along the way and has matured enough that it can be used to benefit the workflow.
Speaker 1:And then. So the first thing is like we've been talking a lot of people using like kind of general CAD software, kind of like, you know, like fusions 360 or whatever other people using kind of these more wizard based cats. So what's the real advantage of having like a dedicated, like OMP kind of CAD cam solution?
Speaker 4:Yeah. So the nice thing I mean for I think our customers value is just the have. The end-to-end is Is. You know that means many things. But of course you have one number to call for support. You know one provider that has to ensure the whole solution works, because if you're dealing with individual providers, you know there's a lot of finger-pointing. It must be that your scanner is not calibrated, or maybe some, you know Somebody says the design software not working or the carvers not calibrated. So when you have that one number to call, there is, you know, there's reassurance that you know there's one place to to to help solve the problem.
Speaker 4:But in terms of how we develop the products, we have a much, we have a much bigger overview of the whole workflow, of the salute, of the solution.
Speaker 4:So you know from you know the preparation of the patient even before scanning right. So we know what should be done in terms of preparing the patient for the scan. That scan is not just a shape when it goes into the design software, because we can Attach with it a bunch of clinical information about the patient, digital landmarking, things that we know are going to be needed in the design step, and all of that can be done at the front end so that when Whoever's doing the design whether that's the same scanning practitioner or or or another you know CAD designer or a central fab they have the information that's needed to do the correct Modifications that the practitioner had in mind and that the patient needs. So the the, the data flows, you know, from scanner to design to carve, and Us having sort of an Control of that whole workflow, make means that we can ensure the final result is really what was expected by the practitioner at the beginning.
Speaker 1:Okay, that's a good approach and then and then. So first off, you guys came out first with the carver solution. So right now is is carver something that a lot of people are still using you or you're gonna sell that you're gonna. Is that the main focus still, or is it just one of the things you could do?
Speaker 4:It's one of the things you could do. There's a lot of interest in 3d printing, you know, I would say Six or seven years ago everyone went out and got theirself a little desktop printer and, you know, tinkered with it and that was a great tool for people to learn how the technology works. But, you know, I think, at the same time some people were, you know, either frustrated or disillusioned or, you know, didn't really have the face that it could be Something that worked in their practice clinically, you know, for actual, like sockets and braces. Ultimately it became something that for many people that became what I can do, a widget or a fixture or an adapter, that's, you know, that's what we've seen in the field. So I think, as a result of that, there's still, you know, a lot more confidence in the market and through carving. So carving is still our biggest, you know, our biggest business, a few, if you, if you'll say and a lot of clinical processes are still built around that that that carved positive model, you know you can do all the traditional stuff you used to do on plaster, you know. So there is that, I think, that comfort level and that Confidence that people still have with with carving, and that's why it's still a majority of what we do.
Speaker 4:But we, of course, we do have 3d printing as well. We have, you know, several customers that are using the, the 3d print designed capabilities that we have in can fit to, to send jobs to various 3d printers. So you know, we work with a centium ourselves on a, you know, an FDM, as they say, ffm or FFF printer. But you know, can fit, can be used and integrated with any other printer as well. So it's just about designing the shape. So we do have that capability and we do have a few customers that are, I would say, being pretty Pretty progressive and and and leading the way in that, in that new 3d printing space. So I think that is coming More and more as we, as we progress. You know the, the split between carving and printing is, you know, the needle still continues to go a little more to 3d printing, you know, year over year. So it's a matter of time when that's, you know, I would say, the the focus and the majority of what our customers do. But still today, carving is, the is the is the majority.
Speaker 1:And if we look at, if we look at a car, really why would I get a car? It was like, is this something I want in-house or, you know, do I have to have a certain amount of volume to warrant getting one of these things?
Speaker 4:that it usually comes down to that how much volume do you have? How much space do you have, right? So the you know it does take up some floor space to to have a carver in-house and to store a few blocks and probably a little bit more than one pallet of a little bit of plaster, what we've seen. Typically, if you're a single clinic, you know, unless you're doing a really high volume, you probably don't have your own carver. You might be leveraging, you know, various central fabricators and that's generally where people start, even before you know, before they even think of a carving. You can get started with just scanning, send a scan to a, to a company, do the design and fabrication, or you can say it, scan and design yourself and then scan that, send that final design off to a central fabricator when again they could be carving it or they could be 3d printing it. And it really just depends on the, on the kind of work you do and what makes sense from a clinical perspective and from a, you know, financial perspective.
Speaker 1:And is there like you have? Do you have an idea like you have to do so many AFL, you know? Is there like a number I can think of to give me a bad idea when, when I should definitely call you, or where I should Kind of think about it, or I'm here, you can call us anytime, happy to help.
Speaker 4:But we do have a. You know we've developed a tool to help Customers do an ROI calculation and you know you say what kind of devices you're doing and what's your reimbursement on those and what's your volume and and how much time are you spending modifying. So there's, you know, of course for every clinic it's gonna be very different, so we can kind of give people a sense of of what makes sense for them. But these are, you know, usually back of the napkin kind of thing. When you can, you can say, wow, I'd be saving a lot of money by going to CAD, or maybe not, maybe it's not the time for you right now.
Speaker 4:You know, speaking of you know that that calculation, you know, of course I hear it usually secondhand but that it sounds like there's a challenge with cost of plaster in the industry. So I think we've been getting a bit more calls than normal Based on that calculation, because people find that even doing it themselves is more costly than it used to be. So you know, maybe that means it's time to switch, maybe not, you know, but Usually it's some sort of pain point or something that makes people think maybe I should be doing things differently I.
Speaker 1:Okay, that's cool, that sounds good. And then also, you guys have like also like scanning solutions, right? So you know like from from the capture all the way to the production, right? So tell us about your scanners.
Speaker 4:Yeah, so we've. You know I won't get into the long history of scanners We've we've had to work with, but I'll speak to a couple of them at least. So spectra 3d scanner is one we've we've had out in the market for about 10 years and it's a structured light scanner. It is, you know, very accurate. You know it's, it's on par with, you know, a creaform type scanner in terms of accuracy. You know our spectra is up to point, one millimeters of accuracy, and it allows you to get the full 3d Data as well as the texture image and the digital landmarks. So you get all of that included in the scan. You don't need Reflective marks or anything like that. You can basically just, you know you can scan the patient directly. What is good to do, of course, is you know setting up the patient, you mark, you know, important landmarks, draw trim lines you might want later to sketch it right on the patient you know limb, or on their stocking out or something, and that all that information comes through Into can fit. So you have all that information at your disposal when you're designing. You know it's, it's, it's such a level up from what we had to work with, you know, 15, 20 years ago In terms of, you know, not just having the, the 3d surface, but also having that visual information as well. The spectra is is you can scan a patient with spectra and send that scan to orth America for helmets. So they, orth America, have a 510k to produce their starband with spectra scan. So that's, you know, a good thing for people that want to have sort of a portable option as well as be able to do helmets and as well as any other kind of device they want to do. So that's really kind of spectra and a nutshell. And again, that's been out in the field for some years and when you compare it to you know costs of some of the high-end scanners, it was quite an attractive offer, especially 10 years ago. And now you know we're competing with lower cost scanners out in the field. So we did, you know, think about, you know what, what is it that we can do to? You know, I wouldn't say necessarily compete with the, the free scanners or the or the low-cost scanners, but what is it about those scanners that has been attractive to the market. So you know we've seen that people love to be able to just pull out their phone or pull out a small iPad and be able to scan the patient, digitize that. So we Develop this new scanners.
Speaker 4:This is Luma 3d scanner and it's a more mobile solution. So it's smaller, it can clip on to a tablet, it works with a Microsoft Windows Interface, so the software is installed on Windows. It's optimized for a surface pro tablet. So again, that nice mobile solution where you can kind of take it anywhere and what's extra. I would say Something special about Luma is that you can use it either kind of clipped to the tablet, like you would a Structure sensor, or you can use it in tether mode so you can attach instead the longer cable and use it like you would Accorded Accorded scanner. So why that's interesting is for certain shape types you know, think of a scanning a patient, for, you know, with a residual limb for a prosthesis or Around the back of an AFO from different sides. It's nice to be able to see the screen all the time when you're scanning and not have to tilt and bend your head around to kind of see what's on the what's on the screen as you scan. So that is something that's, you know, we think is unique.
Speaker 4:For that level of scanner, the Luma, we have a bit more flexible price options. So we have a kind of a pay-per-use model or an annual lease where you get, you know, unlimited scans for the year. So rather than paying, you know, over let's say, 10,000 or something for a scanner, for a spectra, you could be, you know, paying much less and it's a way to get started for a lower, you know, for a lower investment and also ensure that the technology is working for you. And you know, we found many of our, many of our customers are in a hospital or in clinics where it doesn't necessarily love working with Apple products and that's no, you know, no, no dis on Apple products. They're very, they're very cool and work well, but there are IT organizations that prefer just to work with Microsoft. So that's been, you know, another advantage for for Luma that we found over the years.
Speaker 2:So you mentioned just getting started. I mean that seems to be, at least in the experience that I've seen. It's like the parallelization of clinicians at O&P is like where do I start? I have all these options, but can you I mean I did not know some of these options of just getting started Can you share with us a little bit of what it, what it looks like, and maybe you know what you're comfortable with sharing on the like, on the low end, the financial, like the pay-per-use what is, what does that look like? Just to get going? Because what yours and I always say is you need to take a first step. So, whether it's, you know, using something like as an end-to-end solution, like what you guys have, or you know, youtubing some videos just start somewhere, but some people may Find, like this and idea of end-to-end solution that's already been validated, very attractive.
Speaker 4:Yeah, absolutely. So, I mean it totally. You know I probably won't get into price too specifically here, but just in general. And you know, just on the theme of getting started, you know we mentioned scanning as a way to get started. Sure is, there is also a way to get started without scanning, believe it or not. So we have many of our, you know, central fabrication partners where many people do this today. They, you know, take some measurements off a patient and some photos and maybe an x-ray, and they send that off to their favorite, you know central fabricator. And of course, the central fab is using CAD in the back end and they're using library models and things too, to to create the, the designs, and prepare the, the custom device, and send that back. So, even though you don't see the Technology, you kind of know what's working in the back end and you can kind of get some comfort level or, let's say, some confidence in how the technology works. And then you're right in.
Speaker 4:The next logical step is just just, I just want to scan a shape, and there's many ways that you can get started with scanning, and I would be surprised if there's people out there that haven't downloaded a free app and tried it, but that's really the idea to just to see how it might work in in in the process of Fitting a patient. You know, you do want to know, you do want to be working with a, a technology partner, so generally that's going to be a central fabricator again, that that has that full end end in the back end, right that that that they use to produce the, the device, and they are going to be one of the best Resources to guide you on. You know what it is that they need to do their job Well, so they may be the ones to say you know, these are a list of approved scanners, these the ones that we know and we have confidence in because they know it's garbage in, garbage out. I'm sure you guys have said that many times in this podcast and it's probably well understood for most that have already used the technology no-transcript.
Speaker 4:Reaching out to people that are using the technology today and talking to them about what they do, that's usually the greatest way to get started. And I would say don't ask one person. Ask a bunch of people and go to the trade show and talk around and see what people are using when you use the central fabricator, what's interesting is, depending on the sort of business model that they have, you might be charged for the units to do a scan. You may not be charged for the units to do a scan. You might be provided the scanner and only the scans can go to that provider and it actually doesn't cost you anything. You're just tied to using that provider.
Speaker 4:So I think there's many ways that people can think about oh, I'll just give this a try. I didn't realize I could actually get started for no cost. Or maybe generally there's some cost and if nothing else there's your time is a cost, so don't forget your time to get started with a new provider. You're gonna invest a bit of time to get to know what they do and how they do it and learn what it is that they need. But yeah, in terms of getting started, those are a couple of ways that they can do that and they might find actually the cost is a lot lower than they that they might have expected.
Speaker 2:So it sounds like a first step would be like talking to a contract manufacturer or even one of your partners that maybe already have some sort of forum services and then seeing where to go from there Absolutely.
Speaker 4:So again, people are welcome to give us a call anytime. We're happy to point them in the direction. A few partners that we know and love For, speaking just in the US of course we have many worldwide, but in the US, folks like SpinalTec, orth America Friddles this has been one of our partners for many years and they know our stuff inside and out. And others sometimes they show it from the mountaintops that they use VORM in their workflows and sometimes they don't.
Speaker 4:So we have other folks, partners, that may not share, that actually they use VORM but in the backend that they do that. So yeah, those are just a few to name, but so you can give them a call. You can give us a call, but in general just talk. It is a small industry and I find that's usually not.
Speaker 3:the challenge is getting people to talk to other people, that people tend to do that, so that's really awesome and keep talking about this whole, like the central and how among the positive shop and smaller and region or city.
Speaker 4:Basically you can neighbor or touch on it.
Speaker 2:Do you want to get central in the next few years, like connect all these things.
Speaker 4:There could be some tradition or you can outsource everything like this kind of like great solution provider for some high-to-patients or maybe taking the data, for example.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so I mean we it's better than spending and being friendly to people. Vorm will always be doing the content solution. That doesn't mean that a clinic has to purchase the full-intent solution. So I want to just make sure that that you know, make that clear. We do have an open system where somebody has a small and pop shop.
Speaker 1:The smaller shops really thrive and connect to other things.
Speaker 4:We do have the best confidence. Yeah, I do think you know especially for smaller clinics.
Speaker 3:again, it does make a lot of sense to that fabricator To do what you may have our stuff in the back end. So what are you good at?
Speaker 4:What is your reason for being there why?
Speaker 2:So that's why are you seeing patients?
Speaker 4:And why are the patients probably answering another question, but just in terms of that's how that ends.
Speaker 2:I think a more general business question is opposed to our clinical, especially the N-technology question, scan design carve, but when you get to, okay, so how am I going to?
Speaker 1:design that to the customer so you can do the full flow. Then it becomes okay. I know how to do this with plaster or 3D printing.
Speaker 2:I've been doing this for many years.
Speaker 3:And that seems to be, and the technology undoubtedly will change over time. What's the best outcome for the patient?
Speaker 2:What is the best process, what's the best experience for the?
Speaker 3:patient, I think the so looking from the technology angle it is at least for the more modern cleaner, so convenient and comfortable experience for the patient. And we're trying to compete with other clinics but you have to of course but yeah, it is a thing to think about, what is the aesthetic time experience for the patient. And especially if you are a millionaire. We're seeing there casting these patients. The guy across the street is doing all this digital stuff.
Speaker 4:He's probably. We are not promoting and marketing how he's doing things digitally.
Speaker 2:Expecting that you're going to be the only scanner. Think how am.
Speaker 3:I going to compete with that. So if people select our scanner, we come down to cost at the end of the day.
Speaker 2:There's also how am I going to contract us before them?
Speaker 4:So that's another aspect of it.
Speaker 3:And it's the first step in that you know the whole end end One thing, that also makes me think of you know mom and pops. We've talked about, you know, scanning end end solution that sort of thing and they were really talked about some of the modification stuff that can be done.
Speaker 4:Technology is a way to kind of encapsulate, to prestige or prestige, and that knowledge and then I'm not going to.
Speaker 2:you guys have this idea of sure path, but then also technology can actually use to keep what you do that special A lot of feedback on your software, so I know having that data and feedback has allowed you to get better at that. But can you share a little bit about, maybe, the modification workflow and then, how this that difference the differentiation
Speaker 2:and how that has come to be. Yeah so a couple of separate ideas here, so just the modification workflow. So can't fit. Design is our. They still want to provide that care to their customers. The customers may not be going anywhere but they can kind of care design anything head to foot with things, and they're speaking about workflows.
Speaker 3:I've seen this too. How are there feature with the new?
Speaker 2:practitioners coming out of school.
Speaker 3:They're experts in the tech already when they come out of the field. So for that process, adopted their own modification steps. Whatever it is they do, you know, providing whatever it is you do be able to repeat that.
Speaker 4:you know they're ready to have every patient do that. So that's been something, and now it's a bit of a a tangent from where we started on that question.
Speaker 3:Standing guys, macro comes from customers to what you can do. Ultimately, they end up creating their own workflow of the macro. So independent the same thing a thousand times have that helps to automate those things.
Speaker 4:That speciality that you focus on that we have in campus is, it's not a one click and everything's done automatically because every patient's different. So the macro allows you to go through standard steps but still have control of adapting as you go for each patient's needs. So it's, you know, it's kind of like semi automatic in a way, but still giving the choice to the practitioner or the designer of how they want to provide that feature or that correction for that specific patient. So that's really, when we're talking about workflows in can fit design. That's really what that means is a way to do things much more efficiently and just make the decisions you need to do for each patient to be, for them to be successful.
Speaker 4:Surepath is another kind of idea, so it's more of like a how. Vorm provides our technology to customers. So SurePath is it's kind of a name for our customer success program. Customer success is something that comes up a lot in software as a service companies, but it's something that we've adopted because of all the experience we have had. We've seen all the pitfalls and all the things that can go wrong in adopting technology, and it's a way to steer customers back on track to ensure they're meeting their business goals and being successful with the technology. So SurePath really starts, you know, as soon as you give VORM a call, that we understand what it is you really want to do with the solution and we create, you know, surepath goals. We understand what it is you're trying to do. Those goals really feed into the implementation and training that we do to make sure we're giving customer what they need to be successful for what they do.
Speaker 4:And then it also means we have a proactive support. So we can't assume that a customer that doesn't call us has been successful For us. No news is not good news. But so we have to give them a call, we have to check in with them and ultimately the ultimate question is are they being successful in meeting the goals that they had with the solution? Are they doing, are they getting out of it what they wanted to? And if not, that could be for a number of reasons. Could be you know they were distracted in the training. It could been that, you know, maybe there is technical issue with a computer or something. So, depending on the issue, that proactive support allows us to go in there and see if they're, if they're having challenges and then feed it back into either. You know a technical support Could be. You know more training is needed, but it's a way just to make sure we steer them back on course, because many customers over the years and you've probably seen this, brent is people get excited about a technology to get it in, there's a lot of hype, they run into a challenge and then they go back to doing plaster and that's what we're trying to prevent.
Speaker 4:So that's what the SurePath program is all about. We actually have a person. Their whole role is SurePath in our in our company and you know, just to make sure that the customers are being successful. Because technology is cool and it can be a marketing tool and if that's all you need it for, that's great. But ultimately you have a job to do. You have to serve your patients and your patients have to be well cared for and you don't want the patients coming back, you know two or three times to have that well fed a device. So you know whatever success means to you.
Speaker 4:That's what SurePath is for. So it's not. You know we have certain metrics, even on the website, about the sort of improvements that you can see in the workflow or efficiency, but it really depends on what it is that the technology can help you do. So we listen to the customer on that and that's been really successful in being able to understand the benefits of the technology and understand where there may be gaps as well. You know, from a product side, I certainly try to learn a lot from that program to see what it is that the you know the customers are missing, because that helps me kind of steer things in the direction that ultimately again goes back to their success. All right, hey Chris, thank you so much for being on the podcast today.
Speaker 1:So my pleasure. Thank you, guys, and Brent, thank you for being here once again.
Speaker 2:Oh, this has been good. I really enjoyed hearing some of the history and that stuff of the forum and I like that there's a menu, so I think that's neat. As far as an end end solution, I think that's really cool. Thanks guys, it's been a pleasure and thanks for your time.
Speaker 4:And thank you for listening.
Speaker 1:This is another episode of the prosthetics and orthotics podcast with Brent Wright and your heels. Have a great day.